Why should women always have to be nice?

Recently there has been an explosion of words over what one blogger said about another blogger. For some reason, it has been spoken about under secrecy and in hushed terms and no one is really coming out and saying what happened. Here’s the relevant conversation:

And some commentary from Fussypants and Sweetney.

OK, now we’re all clear on what happened. Onward.

I don’t care one way or another about what was said, who said it, or who it was said about — although for the record I should tell you that I like both bloggers involved. The real issue for me is the reaction in the mom blogging community. So far I have yet to hear anyone say “Hey, you’re being a douche. Knock it off.” Or “OMG, just ignore it and move on already.” Instead people are talking about how “as women” we have to stick together.

What a crock.

Just because most of us have tits does not mean that we’re all going to like each other or that we’re all going to play well together. Why do we as women have to limit ourselves to ‘nice’ ?

I’m not saying we should all start calling people out for What They Really Are (although I could use the traffic, so if you write something about me at least have the decency to link), but it is false to say that As Women we’re all nice as pie and Sweet Sweet Sisterhood should prevail over our true natures.

Think someone is a douchebag or overreacting? Unfollow, unsubscribe, or comment publicly on the situation. Think someone has been slandered or misunderstood? Rally to their support. It just shouldn’t matter if you or the people in question are women or men.

Come on people, can’t we all just … be ourselves?


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67 responses to “Why should women always have to be nice?”

  1. Marsha Avatar

    Good point. I think some of us are frustrated that men seem to make all the blogging money and therefore feel that women supporting women in the blogging community is our only hope. Perhaps it would indeed be better if we were loyal to those we truly like instead of just all those who are female. Would give us more credibility. But, still I feel the need to support the girls.

    Marsha's latest post: How to be Happy

  2. MommyTime Avatar

    I don't think women always have to be nice. I do, however, think grown-ups ought to act like adults. Which in my book means not making snarky comments in public forums in place of some kind of private conversation between offender and offendee. What bothers me about this is not that a woman did it as opposed to a man, but that it smacks of high school popular crowd talk, in which an acknowledged "in" person makes snide comments about a younger student in order to make the other popular kids laugh. I'm all for candor. Mean-spiritedness, on the other hand, in unattractive on anyone, male or female.

    MommyTime's latest post: Wednesday Roundup

  3. Kathy Avatar

    I mentioned "the situation" on my own site without naming names given I am not close follower of either. It's not so much my trying to be nice as my wanting to say something but not fueling the fire anymore than needed. (Granted, I'm a really small piece of the blogosphere and doubt anyone would care either way.)

    Not being part of the whole mommyblogger community, I've been following this as an interested outsider, because it does bring up the idea of authenticity and copycats. There have been times when I've change a title or a post around because I saw a similar post on a senior blogger's site, and I'm not the type to be intimidated by an (I hate this word, by the way) A-Lister. For what it's worth, I've never believed women have to be nice to each other 100% of the time. That's how "mean girls" and cliques come about: backstabbing and gossiping when someone should just come right out and say what she feels.

    Kathy's latest post: Mmmmm… meat.

  4. laura Avatar

    this whole drama smacks of the junior high drama crap we all survived which evolved into the machisma-i'm-mommier-than-thou sense we all encounter as moms soon to be followed by the my-grandchild-is-more-perfect-than-yours thought process that i was explaining to my 1st born daughter the other day. as a brand new mommy herself she is trying to understand the whole mommy drama that results in her own personal choices as a mother to her child. stuff like this just makes me shake my head over the wasted energy of it all.

    laura's latest post: a whole lot of nothing accomplished today

  5. Melizzard Avatar

    I did try to address the whole thing but just mocking the silliness of the attack on my blog but since I didn't see the actual Tweets didn't feel like I could give a full on opinion of it.

    Last night a wrote a post comparing the whole thing to the French Revolution and predicting Blog-Her could possibly turn out to be the Bastille of the Mommy Blogging World with the new bloggers openly condemning the elite. Complete with FussyPants head PS on a little french soldier's body for fun.

    But in the end decided not to post it because in reality it was just one person chewing on sour grapes, clearly jealous of the popularity and success achieved by a relative newcomer.

    What it probably deserves is a why can't women just be happy for each others success kind of post. Why do they have to be mean about the success of others?

  6. Marilyn Avatar

    I don't think we "as women" have to be "nice", necessarily. What I think is that we "as people" should treat each other with basic respect. I too like and enjoy both of these women and have been saddened by all the fallout. I don't think it has to do with empowerment AT ALL. I just think we should all realize that we're in this together and have compassion for one another. What is gained by hurtful words? Nothing.

    Marilyn's latest post: What happened to compassion?

  7. JayMonster Avatar

    I think the previous comments cover it pretty well. The calls to "be nice" is not about (per se) sitting around a campfire singing Kumbaya so much as it is like a teacher saying to the kids that can't seem to "play nice" to just cut it the hell out.

    I don't know or read either. But in as much (with BlogHer on the way), I have been waiting for another "war" to break out, this is by far the dumbest one I have seen yet.

    You can go to any blog and find something that has be "repurposed" supposedly from somebody else. You can also find plenty of people that use similar monickers, whether it be for themselves or for their kids. (I mean who exactly was the first blogger to refer to their kids as "Thing One and Thing Two", or "Bean" or whatever.

    So, while it would appear that I am clearly on Fussypants side of the argument in this case, I am not. Because it is just simply too stupid an argument to need to "draw lines" in the sand over. However inane, sweetney's may appear to me to be, she has the right to believe she is that important that she can dictate who can and can't use such and such type of tool, and who owns it. Who am I (or anybody else except the person offended) to stop her. I would just ignore her (and the rest of this argument, once I hit submit)

    JayMonster's latest post: Perhaps I cause cancer

  8. Andrea Avatar

    I don't read either, and thought the kerfluffle (and the accusations) were ridiculous.

    Seriously, copycat? It's a popular mommyblogging *style* and has been for a few years. I've been around long enough to see it grow and to see the same exact fights like this crop up time and time again.

    Good for you for actually, you know, being clear and not doing the secretive "I know something you don't" insider clique-ish post.

  9. Erika Jurney Avatar

    Andrea, I hate secretive behavior, and you're absolutely right. Vague posts alluding to things like this without actually naming them can be very elite-y. Thought I'd change that ;)

  10. Jennifer Avatar

    I linked (some of) the tweets in my post today so that people who were confused would know what I was referring to. I felt bad reading all the comments of people who felt left out of the (albeit ridiculous) drama.

    I don't think we have to be nice or like everyone. There's LOTS of blogs and people I could talk smack about, but I don't out of self-respect and the respect of others. I think that the name-calling was childish, rude, and uncalled for. Tracey could have definitely handled it better.

    Okay, I guess I did talk a *little* smack today on my own site, but it really was meant to be tongue in cheek and fess up to using others ideas at times. Maybe, just maybe, I could have handled it better, too.

    Jennifer's latest post: Hump Day! This is me humping your Internet leg! (Alternate tagline: I guess I’m a parasite, too!)

  11. DD Avatar

    First of all, there hasn't been a truly "original" blog format in years…no offense. No matter what genre a person decides to take up on their blog, whether it's photoshopping, knitting, haikus, or displaying pictures of cats using poor grammar and spelling skillz, it's been done before. Whether it's been done before more successfully or not determines how your personal blog is viewed.

    If someone came along and said that it seemed like I was stealing my blogging ideas from Sweetney or Dooce because of the similarities, I'd be fucking flattered.

    DD's latest post: A LIFE MORE ORDINARY

  12. charmingdriver Avatar

    Meh, I posted about it today and I was decidely not nice.

    charmingdriver's latest post: Originality and Parasites

  13. Melizzard Avatar

    Also meant to say "Thanks" to Erika for posting the screenshot and clearing the mystery because the tweets themselves have been hidden behind a privacy filter now and cannot be viewed. Which I think added to the whole mystery crap.

    Melizzard's latest post: With Any Luck I'll Get Accused of Copying Dooce And My Stats Will Go Up.

  14. Erika Jurney Avatar

    Charmingdriver, I expect nothing less :)

  15. Erika Jurney Avatar

    Melizzard, I grabbed that screenshot this morning, so I don't think the tweets have been hidden. Twitter is failing spectacularly these days, so maybe it was just borked when you looked.

  16. Alli ~Mrs. Fussypant Avatar

    I hope Pioneer Woman attacks me next.

    Just kidding! Ree is too classy and I adore her.

    But really, that'd be pretty cool.

    ~crawling back in my hole to hide!~

    love ya, fuss

  17. Erika Jurney Avatar

    Alli, I'm trying to figure out how to get Dooce pissed at me. (And get out of that freaking hole!)

  18. karrie Avatar

    I did comment honestly. I'll do so again here.

    I'm cool with being open and honest, but cutting down a newly postpartum mom sideways–and one who from previous posts seemed to enjoy reading Sweetney's blog– is just cruel. Why bother?

    Sweetney was rude to me when I was a new blogger, and I have observed and heard of similar behavior from her towards others. Yet she does not react well when the criticism or even mildly rude cracks are lobbed in her direction.

    If Sweetney was truly concerned about content theft, there are more professional and mature ways to manage that issue. I think she simply wanted to poke fun at someone who was deemed to be not cutting edge enough for her personal tastes. Lame.

    And really? I cannot think of a parenting blogger out there with a voice and style that is completely unique. Sweetney included. She's simply a bit more arrogant in her delivery than most.

  19. Mrs. Schmitty Avatar

    Oh can't we all just get along? Though if it means more traffic for my blog…YOU ALL SUCK!

    Kidding…seriously. ;)

    Mrs. Schmitty's latest post: New Blog!

  20. Cecily Avatar

    Well said. I dunno, I think it's one thing to copy an idea (as I do when I do monthly posts to my daughter, just like someone we all know) and another to say, copy posts in their entirety. Sigh.

    Course, I was eager to know what happened. I am a totally rubber necker.

    Cecily's latest post: Moronic Post to Battle My Mounting Panic: TV!

  21. Erika Jurney Avatar

    I read lots of bloggers, some of them I think I would like if I ever met them in person, and some I know for sure that I would hate if I met them in person. It doesn't matter to me if a blogger is nice or not, I read them if their content interests me somehow.

    So saying that all people have to be nice is just wrong, IMO.

    If you're nice, you will have more friends. If you're nice you will have an easier time fitting into offline society. If you're nice things tend to go more smoothly.

    But.

    That isn't what everyone wants, and it isn't for me to dictate that we've all got to respect one another. The world is full of polite people and rude people, and that makes it interesting.

  22. crunchy carpets Avatar

    It is just weird….and I like em both..so yeah..it is WEIRD.

    How different are we all supposed to be?

    Do we not get 'inspired' by some other blog or post and write up similar things….??

    How different can mom's get?

    And when there is REAL content theft going on and other stuff…is this really a big issue to go to that sort of level?

    I am all for speaking my mind on or offline..but sometimes..is it really worth it?

    Hits wise..both are probably doing great from this AND look at the notoriety now created if they are both attending BlogHer…much will be said now about who hangs with how and blah and it will highschool all over again.

  23. karrie Avatar

    Agree completely that the expectations for women to always play nice are absurd. Still, no need to, as WTM put it, "club a baby seal."

    This is a much more interesting conversation than vague, unsupported attacks though, wouldn't you agree?

    I'd personally like a more detailed explanation of how Fussy's site ripped off Dooce. I've only read Dooce a few times, and ditto Fussy, but there is no similarity beween the two that I could discern. Anyone? Sweetney could have provided examples, but I would be shocked if she read more than an entry or two of Fussypants before she started twittering from her twat.

    The only one of the blogs mentioned that I visited prior to this was Bossy–and that was mostly while she was on her road trip. (And hey! *I* took month long road trip, and blogged about it shortly before Bossy did. I should sue….)

    Aside from using photo shop frequently, I don't see similarities between Fussy and Bossy either.

    karrie's latest post: A Meme From Missy

  24. sweetney Avatar

    i never compared this person to dooce. "doocepants" was a joke. i also saying "sweetneypants" at some point, though i see no similarities between that blog and my own. i just happen to have a sense of humor, which it seems many are sorely lacking.

    frankly, i can't even believe you people are still talking about this. it's like TV during summer: all reruns. sigh. isn't there something better on? :)

    thanks for showing some semblance of support, Erika. you rock.

    sweetney's latest post: I wouldn't trade one stupid decision for another five years of life*

  25. karrie Avatar

    No, what you did to this unsuspecting, and by all accounts kind and decent woman, was simply not funny.

    Having a sense of humor and a sense of compassion are not mutually exclusive.

  26. K Avatar

    Wow. I don't really think what Sweetney posted on Twitter (or whatever that is) can be justified. It's not that it's just not nice—it's mean-spiritied and totally unnecessary–not to mention, completely delusional. If Sweetney wants to hold Fussypants up as an example of someone who has "stolen ideas" from popular bloggers, she had better make a complete list and not simply pick on this one woman (I don't read any of them so I could care less).

    I agree that we do not have to be nice to each other all the time. But if we all went around saying exactly what we feel about one another, I'm afraid there wouldn't be too many happy people walking the earth. I know some people who find it hard to censor themselves and here's what I've found out–they say a lot of what other people are already thinking but afraid to say–but they have no friends because people hate them for TELLING THE TRUTH. So I think we've got to self-censor a bit–be civil if you will.

    I think bloggers who feel they've got a corner on the market of original ideas are full of themselves and completely WRONG. It's so silly, really. Women have a hard time being happy when another woman succeeds or is happy and that's just a shame. There's really enough for all of us so why not just mind your own business and allow other people to do what they enjoy doing?

    K's latest post: Just because

  27. Jen Avatar

    Well, I don't have a sense of humor and I don't rock so I'll just say that I thought the tweets in question were rude, unfounded and just plain old not very nice. But you know else I think? I think we all have a right to be as rude as we want to be. There's no rule that says we have to be nice. Even to other bloggers. Even to other female bloggers.

    I also think that when you announce to a room full of people "Hey everyone! This person I know nothing about is a parasite!" then you can't be too shocked when people call you on it. And when people do call you on it then it's really lame to act all shocked and wonder what all the "drama" is about. Sweetney, (and this is coming from someone you don't know and don't give a flying flip about) YOU started this drama with those ill advised tweets. I don't know if you did it because you're a stone cold bitch or because you're a super cool rebel who refuses to conform (or some combination of the two) but if you really thought that you could throw something like that out there and NOT get some kind of negative reaction then that makes me wonder about your sense of entitlment.

    And yes, I know that we should all be so totally over this by now and even writing this makes me a hater and I can suck it and blow it and stick it up my ass but I'm just calling it like I see it.

    Erika, would it be wrong of me to use your comments to declare that I love charming driver more than wine and chocolate and bacon all rolled into one? Because I do.

    Jen's latest post: Motherhood Maternity Giftcard Giveaway

  28. Erika Jurney Avatar

    Jen,

    First of all: "And yes, I know that we should all be so totally over this by now and even writing this makes me a hater and I can suck it and blow it and stick it up my ass but I'm just calling it like I see it."

    You really do suck because reading that made me laugh so hard I snorted coke zero all over myself.

    Secondly, I love Charming Bitch too, so go wild ;)

  29. Procrastamom Avatar

    Waaaait!!!! Fussypants just said "kthanxbai" in her comment and we all know that phrase was lifted from…oh, about a billion other blogs I can think of offhand.

    I think most Mommybloggers have a great sense of humour (all the ones I read anyways), but I fail to see the humour in Tracey's words. They were basically mean and meant to stir a reaction. I was unimpressed.

    On the bright side, I'd never read Fussypants before and have, since this kerfuffle, added her to my reader.

    Procrastamom's latest post: I’ve eaten lunch since I wrote this, so my blood sugar’s back on track

  30. Dana Avatar

    Are we still giving a shit?

    I've never seen so much damn whining in my life than when this all hit the fan. Whining from bloggers mad because "a-listers" don't link to them/follow them on Twitter/ blah blah blah. People whining and preaching about community and wagging virtual fingers all the while saying worse things than the statements which kicked this into high gear. All of the criticism aimed at Sweetney for her comments was rendered invalid by the salacious bitchfest that other bloggers and commenters engaged in. You can't wag your finger with your other hand in the cookie jar.

    The big point people are missing is that all this mom blogging whatever has grown beyond being just a hobby for a lot of women. For some of these women, it's how they pay their bills. They've put a lot of time into their brand. I can totally see how a person would feel angry if their IP (or that of someone they know)was being ripped off or infringed upon. I've taken the blunt end of that situation up the rear before, so it's a huge sore spot for me.

    I also think that we're grown ass women and we don't need to be coddled or to coddle each other. If you can't handle opinions, what on EARTH are you doing online? Erika – couldn't agree more with your sentiment: some people are just not going to get along and it's stupid to force it for the sake of kittens and sunshine. Big deal! Wah! What was that phrase that I read over, and over on other sites? Grow up, was it?

    Dana's latest post: What to do when attacked by a swinger

  31. andi Avatar

    Awesome post, Erika. I've been thinking about this a lot lately -not necessarily because of the whole Twitter drama, but because my little girl has been acting extremely independent lately. Although I really want her to be opinionated and independent and fight for what she wants, I also want to her to be respectful of others, you know, without trying to be someone she isn't.

    So yes, I TOTALLY agree people should feel free to be themselves and that we can't all get along. But, I'm not really a fan of being mean for the sake of being mean. There are many blogs that aren't necessarily my thing, but I choose not to publicly humiliate their authors just for the sake of gifting everyone with my wonderful opinions.

    I think you can give people your opinions and voice your concerns without being rude about it, by privately e-mailing or whatever. And if you do give an opinion in the public sphere that can be seen of as controversial, you better be ready to face the consequences of your actions. I don't think I could say it better than Jen@ProblemGirl's comment did – I'm surprised that Sweetney didn't know what she was in for when she posted the Tweets.

    Whew. Longest comment ever. Sorry about that. Now onto the next bloggy drama…

    andi's latest post: The state of things

  32. Jennifer Avatar

    Good grief. Do people have nothing better to do than to tear others down? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, if this woman ripped her off, then I could see the need to send a smackdown, otherwise, simply stopping by to say hello would have probably sufficed. But then I tend to be passive aggressive.

  33. that girl Avatar

    sweetney's no dummy. she knows how to spike her readership. nuff said.

    that girl's latest post: Break Time

  34. Kecia Avatar

    The world suddenly seems very, very small to me.

    Kecia's latest post: Tightrope

  35. anymommy Avatar

    Interesting take on the whole thing – thanks. In general, I agree, but in this particular instance, I disagree. My issue here is that the original accusations were very serious and very public. Intellectual property rights are a huge issue in a public media that thrives on daily essays by thousands of people and trademark(like) names and personas. If we want some rules of society, (like copyright, trade infringement, etc.) to apply to blogging, then we have to acknowledge other rules of society – for instance libel and defamation.

    Although it was phrased as twitter snark, in it's simplest sense, one person accused another of a 'crime' (copyright and trademark infringement) in a public setting. If the accusations are unfounded (which, after brief research, they seemed to be to me) that's libelous. Of course, it's a little silly to take this that seriously, but I'm not sure it just writes off easily as 'opinionated' or even 'mean.'

    In the real world, we all get to be ourselves, but there are consequences for committing 'crimes' or violating laws. Do we want these laws to apply to the blogosphere or don't we? I guess that is one real issue that comes from this mess.

    Whew! To leave on a less pole stuck up my ass sounding note: Charming Bitch and Problem girl cracked my shit up!

    anymommy's latest post: Tales of My Traveling Past – Elephant Trekking

  36. Nicole/wksocmom Avatar

    I just have two things to say – if you don't do a Go Read it Today soon, I am totally dissing you on my blog. And fussypants's response was downright hilarious.

    Nicole/wksocmom's latest post: Organize This, Baby

  37. Erika Jurney Avatar

    Hey Nicole, 'go read it today' has moved to my sidebar ;) I'll post about that change next week.

  38. Dana Avatar

    Anymommy – I've gone through the TM process twice and have successfully defended my mark by law. One could say – actually many did say – that a CBS affiliate once slandered me in a broadcast for protecting my propriety interests.

    Sweetney's comment was not libel nor did she accuse anyone of trademark infringement. She did say that there exist grounds for confusion which is emphatically not the same as saying there was an all-out infringement. That others have publicly stated their confusion over the titles would invalidate any libelous accusation against her simply because others confirmed what she stated. The best defense of libel is the truth. Make sense? I too was confused by the name and thought it was THE Fussy. Of course, the only people who could do anything would be the IP owners in question.

    This has kicked off a much bigger topic than just a "mommyblogger brawl." There is a huge lack of respect for IP and it's disturbing. There is also NO PLACE for emotions in law. Simply because we can create, unfettered, online doesn't mean that we shouldn't be responsible when doing so. It doesn't take much to check with Google to make sure that your idea is indeed original. As we are developing brands, this issue IS a serious one. K, I'm done.

    Dana's latest post: What to do when attacked by a swinger

  39. The Aitch Avatar
    The Aitch

    First off, I think I am in love with karrie. Her comments alone deserve my click to her blog and after reading a few posts I have added her to my repertoire of the current 3 blogs that I still read. That right there is a big deal.

    So let me start, I used to blog (low end of normal). For almost 3 years…then last year I stopped because blogging got boring, people suck and blah blah blah. Anyway, I don't miss it in the least. Talk about a pain in my ass! I narrowed down my blog reading list to like I said, 3 because I found most bloggers sucked and were unoriginal and not people I'd like to be friends with so why continue reading, right? Right!

    But I'll tell you this, I am not surprised in the least that sweetney is still out there being a mean girl. And of course, all in the name of being "snarky," "jokey" and "funny." Bull crap, no she wasn't she was being a bitch plain and simple. Like she's known to be. Remember last year when she called Kirstie Alley fat and whatnot and people got pissed and instead of saying sorry she offended people with her bitchiness she told them all she was joking and to get over it? Well, that's what she does. She makes excuses for her assholishness by making sure everyone knows she's just an alternative-nerdy-hipster who is snarky-jokey-funny and please everyone get over it because in real life she is not a bitch. Yeah right. She's a bully plain and simple, but I knew all this years ago. Why anyone defends her crap I'll never know.

  40. Her Bad Mother Avatar

    Word on the issue of niceness. why the fuck should we all be nice all the time?

    That said – we can't have it both ways. You can't bemoan Sweetney's lack of niceness while ripping her a new asshole. Saying 'she deserved it' or 'she asked for it' or 'she should have expected it' is disingenuous in the extreme. If mean is bad, it's bad from any direction.

    In any case (YAWN), the question of whether Sweetney was mean or a bully misses the bigger issues. A lot of bloggers have confessed – privately or publicly – to confusion over who is Fussy and which Fussy is which? Which begs all variety of questions concerning ownership of our identities. I'm not saying that FP can't be FP – I'm saying that the topic of discussion opened up, however inelegantly, by Sweetney is an important one, and not one that should be dismissed just because it was deemed harsh.

    Let's get our panties untwisted about who said what to whom and who's a bitch and who're the mean girls and get on with actually talking about stuff that matters.

    Her Bad Mother's latest post: Community Is Hard. Deal With It.

  41. Erika Jurney Avatar

    Catherine, I assume you're not talking to me, because I haven't ripped anyone a new anything and my panties are just fine.

  42. The Aitch Avatar
    The Aitch

    There's a difference between being un-nice and just being a bully. Especially when sweetney has a coronary if anyone's mean to her.

    All I'm saying is, sweetney gets away with being a crack everyday. All she does hide behind her jokez and deflect about it being old news. It may be old news to her, but not to some of us and I wanna have a say.

    But hey, if sweetney apologized to fussypants then good on her. Too bad she won't learn from it though, she'll continue being a bully and in a few months we can all hate on her some more for some other crap she'll pull. All in all, the attack was undeserved and I'll leave it that for them to make nice.

    P.S. I want to ask herbadmother personally if she thinks sweetney's twitters about fussypants were harsh and unfair. And do you really think originality by mommyblogs is an important topic? I mean really? really??

  43. […] 3, 2008 · No Comments Perhaps you are already aware of this this attack on a relatively new blogger. If not, I’ll wait while you get up to […]

  44. sweetney Avatar

    Fussypants and Sweetney have kissed and made up. Everyone please resume life as usual. Thanks.

    sweetney's latest post: The fourth day of July

  45. kristina Avatar

    As always, a well written post. Well said on all accounts.

  46. Shannon Avatar

    I agree with you. People are free to speak their mind in this country. I don't get all the "MUST be nice to fellow mommy bloggers" drama.

    BTW, I also don't get how a person is supposed to be aware of EVERY OTHER BLOGGER on the webosphere before starting her own blog. So she picked a similar name? If you don't have the brains to figure out one blog from another, then you maybe shouldn't be blogging.

    Shannon's latest post: The Isagenix Diet: Days One and Two

  47. Dana Avatar

    "That said – we can't have it both ways. You can't bemoan Sweetney's lack of niceness while ripping her a new asshole. "

    Everyone should read that twice. Secondly, from the Aitch:

    "Her comments alone deserve my click to her blog and after reading a few posts I have added her to my repertoire of the current 3 blogs that I still read. That right there is a big deal."

    That's funny. Wait, weren't you just giving her shit for acting too big for her britches? And speaking of the most overused and misapplied term ever, "bullies," weren't you also on that silly trainwrecks site?

    That's rhetorical. I don't want to take over Erika's comments with that but if we're truly having an honest conversation let's not be disingenuous.

    And: "I also don't get how a person is supposed to be aware of EVERY OTHER BLOGGER on the webosphere before starting her own blog. So she picked a similar name? If you don't have the brains to figure out one blog from another, then you maybe shouldn't be blogging."

    That's not how IP law operates, thankfully. You can't create a car company and call it Dadge. This is exactly what I'm talking about: the internet, mommyblogging, et al. does not limit the scope of IP. End of story.

  48. Kelley Avatar

    *pouts*

    I referred to it briefly, only cause I ended up caught in it. How, I have no freaking idea, but I did. People emailing and talking on Plurk and asking my opinion.

    And I just told everyone to stop acting like this is high school and grow the f up.

    And to be honest, if it was 2 relatively unknown bloggers NOTHING would have been said.

    Kelley's latest post: Take me, please take me.

  49. Her Bad Mother Avatar

    Aitch:

    Harsh, maybe; unfair, no. FP researched the mom-blog community before she launched her own blog – she set out to create a successful blog and did so by emulating other blogs. Which I think is fine – mostly. I've never said that mom-blogs need to be completely original – we can't help but borrow from each other – but when it comes to names (or brands, which many blog identities are), I think that there's some justifiable sensitivity there, for the same reasons that there are such sensitivities in other creative fields (two actors can't register under the same name at SAG, for example; you'd get sued if you started a magazine called Vamity Fare; etc etc) See Dana's points above.

    So FP chose a blog name that has caused some confusion between her blog and the original Fussy blog, and calls herself Fussy while the other blogger is referred to as Fussy, and I think it's totally fair comment for someone to point that out and ask whether she's the only one to think that's uncool. Could she have been nicer about it? Sure. But focussing on that *relentlessly* prevents us from talking about the underlying issues of blog identity in a community that is both friendly neighborhood and professional (or wannabe professional) creative space.

    Her Bad Mother's latest post: Moms Without Pants

  50. pamela Avatar

    Wow, I missed a whole lot of drama. Good to be out of the loop.

  51. Poppy Buxom Avatar

    Great post. As I've said on another blog, the upside of this whole situation is that I'm finding lots of great new bloggers.

    My two cents: Expecting all female bloggers to repress their opinions in favor of "the community" is bullshit. First of all, what community? I mean, sure, I guess some women started blogging because they wanted to "meet" other bloggers, but I started blogging because I like to write. And I want to write the truth, not edentulous pap.

    And second of all, no one asks male bloggers to stifle themselves for the good of their "community." Why should other female bloggers ask it of us?

  52. Blog Starr Avatar

    I think the bigger questions ARE important, which is why I was surprised HBM turned off comments when "Sweetney and Fussypants made up." She added to the thought that this debaucle was about niceness.

    I'm glad Tracey did what she did. She's alerted prospective readers that she's insecure about her fading popularity now that there is more competition and is invested in keeping a small groups of friends in a higher status. ANytime you hear someone whining about the good old days, you know they know times are changing.

    Intellectual property matters to us all. Telling anyone who started blocking "a year ago" that they are derivative for really basic things–giving advice? using photoshop? — is going to make it feel like you are pointing at ALLL newish bloggers who have admired Dooce and all and maybe feature their dog on their blog. Are they parasites, or adopting some very widely accepted components of what is the contemporary definition of a "mommyblog." Good lord, there really aren't that many variations on the themes out there.

    Tracey didn't think, she tweeted, and then whined she was attacked for speaking her mind, and she looks worse than "mean." She's petty and now her own victim playing music in her room, so misunderstood. And those who have defended her outburst and tried to represent it as an intellectual discussion on blog property are like mama trying to explain away a tantrum. The old guard is slipping!

    I can't wait for the next wave of bloggers to really tell those of us we who think we are the emperors that we have no clothes. That will be great reading.

    Blog Starr's latest post: Sour-ney Apples–it's tough when you're not the brilliant baby anymore

  53. Catherine Avatar

    Sweetney: *nasty-ass rude comments about unknown blogger*

    Blogworld: Damn, what the fuck? No need to be such a dick about it.

    Sweetney: OMG you can't handle constructive criticism! Nobody liked me in high school!

    Blogworld: It wasn't constructive criticism, you were just an asshole.

    Sweetney: Why are you people still talking about this?

    *eyeroll*

    Catherine's latest post: Some Pictures, Some News. This and That, You Know.

  54. Jane Avatar

    You know, I think coincidences happen. I'd never heard of you (and I suspect you've never heard of me), but we both got nominated for one of those lame blogger/bloggie whatever it was awards and I never thought I was copying you or you were copying me because…well. We're sorta not alike. At all. Sweetney loves to cause trouble.

    Jane's latest post: Zzzzzzzzing

  55. mommypie Avatar

    Erika, I'm with you. Let's get Dooce pissed at us both. Seriously … I've been tryin'.

    mommypie's latest post: It ain’t no Pickle Car. Just an obscenely long post.

  56. […] the fire further. The dissection and re-hashing, also unnecessary. Honestly, the time and energy that was spent writing and reading about it all was a colossal shame, especially when all those resources and brainpower […]

  57. The Aitch Avatar
    The Aitch

    Dana – I'm confused at what point you're trying to make with your comment or from which comment you quoted me from. Can you please be clearer? Thanks.

    If anyone thinks I was ever a contributing editor/writer/blogger or whatever to the shit hole that was the trainwrecks site you are sorely mistaken. I was, however, a subject on it a couple of times and it really hurt my blogging feelings. I would never want to be associated with having anything to do with that mess other than being one that was made fun of.

    I guess I could let sweetney's assholery roll off my shoulders if she wasn't contributing to being a crack all the dang time. You think this is the first time she's ever been just a dick about things? No. Won't be her last either. Like I said before, why anyone finds her charming in any way is completely lost on me.

    I wont even get into blog branding and intellectual property whatchamacallit… it's bullshit nonsense and I could care less about it. Your not saving lives here.

  58. The Aitch Avatar
    The Aitch

    Oops! HBW I should have read your comments at momvoyage first before posting here. And sorry Erika for leaving too many comments. HBW – email me if you'd like to talk further. Thanks!

  59. Kim Avatar
    Kim

    I know that my comment isn't going to change lives, but I just wanted to make it anyway.

    There is a difference in people "having to be nice" (they don't) and having human decency and acting like adults (which someone wasn't). There is a difference in being a nonconformist and being a jerk. And that line is usually crossed when someone forgets to grow up.

    It's sad to me that as adults – male OR female – we act like this. No wonder our parents' generation thinks we are a bunch of idiots. That is how we act most of the time.

  60. Erika Jurney Avatar

    I agree 100% that Tracey was being a jerk with her comments on Twitter. It's also odd to hear her state that she's shocked by the reaction she's gotten. She's been blogging long enough to know that her voice carries.

    However.

    I reject the argument that 'as mothers' or 'as women' we all need to get along/support each other/be nice. That's false, forced, and as constraining as any other 'should' placed on us by others.

    So yes, she was being a jerk. And yes, she will feel the social consequences. But should she have kept quiet solely for the sake of 'sisterhood'? I say no.

  61. Queen of Shake Shake Avatar

    Chiming in a bit late here, but just had to say A-frackin-men!

    We're not all nice. We don't all have to support one another. BUT I do draw the line at tearing down another.

    Period.

    All that BS about having rights to our own opinion, oh fine. Yeah, we have the right to act like a ginormous asshole. Not every opinion needs to be expressed, as any adult should know. Tracey was childish and looked like an ass.

    I'm glad I decided to take a short hiatus from twitter and my google reader and it coincided with all of the FP/Sweetney drama. My contribution to the drama…I just won't read Sweetney ever again.

    Queen of Shake Shake's latest post: I Think I Just Renounced My American Citizenship

  62. AMomTwoBoys Avatar

    Gah. What DRIVES ME NUTS about all this, aside from how stupid & petty the ENTIRE situation is, is that Fussy did the EXACT SAME THING to someone a few months ago that Sweetney did to her. Where's the outrage there?

  63. Erika Jurney Avatar

    AMomTwoBoys, can you come back and leave another comment which gives more details? I never heard about this.

  64. AMomTwoBoys Avatar

    I just had this whole thing typed out and then my sticky fingers baby somehow erased it all, so here we go again:

    I tried to sift through Twitter to find the tweet of which I speak, but there's no way I can make it back that far. So, I will try to do my best to explain the situation here, which will be pretty vague because I don't remember all the details:

    A few months back Fussy tweet'd something to the effect of "I just smacked down my first blogger" and linked to a post by someone I can't remember (we'll call her Betty). Betty had written a post having something to do with a dress, being frugal and another blogger (we'll call her Sue). Fussy apparently knew who Betty was talking about even though Sue was not named or linked to in Betty's post.

    Fussy didn't like what Betty had to say about Sue (something about how Sue claimed to be frugal but actually wasn't-GASP!) and pretty much ripped her a new one. Which wouldn't be so bad, except then she went to Twitter and sent her Twitter followers to Betty's post. At which point, the Friends of Fussy rallied and continued to bitch out Betty for quite a while.

    The only thing that was running through my mind was how mean-spirited all of it seemed, and was totally against what they were all trying to say, which was pretty much that "Christian women need to stick together and support each other." Even though they, in effect, were doing the exact opposite. I just pictured poor Betty sitting at her computer with tears streaming down her face at all the criticism being directed at her.

    What was weird, because from what I know of Fussy & her posse, they seem like nice people, and this entire incident made them come across as just plain mean. But I doubt it was really inteded that way originally, becuase Fussy doesn't seem like that kind of person AT ALL.

    What I'm trying to say is, it's all relative, is it not? Sure, what Sweetney said didn't necessarily need to be said and ended up hurting some feelings, but EVERYONE is guilty of it at one point or another. Even Fussy. And me. How ever unintentionally. And I've already been in contact with Fussy about this, internets, so no need to jump into the fray.

    In closing, I LOVE FUSSY and I LOVE SWEETNEY and it's 9:35am and I need a drink. A strong one.

    AMomTwoBoys's latest post: An Open Letter To Guy Kawasaki

  65. Alli ~Mrs. Fussypant Avatar

    "Gah. What DRIVES ME NUTS about all this, aside from how stupid & petty the ENTIRE situation is, is that Fussy did the EXACT SAME THING to someone a few months ago that Sweetney did to her. Where's the outrage there?"

    I am confused by this statement. I emailed her to find out exactly what she is referring to.

    I have avoided commenting in hopes of letting the bruhaha die down. I felt I needed to address this publicly. I strive to never say anything hurtful and I hope this is a mistake.

  66. Alli ~Mrs. Fussypant Avatar

    Whoopsie, now I see the second comment. I will address it publicly, considering the open forum nature of the comment section.

    A blogger wrote a mean spirited post about a good friend. A friend who is the kindest, most modest wonderful woman. This was done under the auspices of 'being Christian'. It was ugly and intolerable.

    I learned of it on Twitter, went to the blogger and called her on it. I also twittered about it to friends. The woman removed her post and apologized.

    A mean spirited post, full of lies about someone who you've haven't met is always wrong. I feel no need to justify my response. I did not attack the blogger who was in the wrong, nor did I insult her. I simply called her on the meanspirited post and had the friends of my good friend call her on it also.

    But, there you have it, all my dirty laundry.

    Hah.

  67. AMomTwoBoys Avatar

    And by now I hope Alli has had a chance to read my LONG and DRAWN OUT explanation of what I referred to above. And that I haven't managed to hurt her feelings, or anyone else's for that matter. That was not my intent.

    And now I'm totally annoyed with myself for injecting myself into the middle of it. I'm off to build my son's playground, because, let's face it, that's what life's all about.

    Again, I love Fussypants, I love Sweetney, and I love you, Erika Jurney, for turning your blog comments over to me today.

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